Curse

Test Me · Dec 07, 2009, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wuhy

this is because most teams who do it the balanced way are composed of retards since every "high-end pveer" (albeit retard too) does it the quick, mindless way.

Because obviously online RPG games are meant to be played only by rocket science elitists with an IQ over 170 with 7 friends alike them. Because wait.... ANet does not want "retards" to buy a copy and enjoy playing a game, cause "retard" money is no-good money for ANet.

Not to mention how "retarded" it is to refer about someone's "skill" in a game as being "retarded". Obviously people with great GW skills get to be elected presidents and are known to have invented the cure for cancer, aids and what not.

Day Trooper · Dec 07, 2009, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by impulsion

Sure without SF you can still finish the UW, but can you finish it in 7mins? Can you solo every quest? I don't want to just complete areas willy-nilly in a balanced team, I want to design a build and a method then refine it to achieve the fastest time possible.

This is my feeling as well (I won't quit, but will be extremely disappointed for sure).

While creating the 'dayway' UWSC I had the most fun playing GW that I've had in quite a while - as I was on vent many nights with other UW pros trying to figure out a quicker way to do UW than the 90+ mins pug-time (assuming they even complete the run) which was typical prior to dayway. When we got the 28 minute run, we were all extremely satisfied and excited that we got the run down to such a manageable time.

However, if post-SF the best possible time to complete UW is 2+ hours, then imho that's just simply way too long to spend in an area - especially if one of your teammates fails and causes the party to be booted back to ToA and wasting all the time you just spent (at least now we can do a 'relaxed' dayway run in 35-45 mins, and so the time investment isn't so great that a failed-run seems like a complete waste of time)...

-DT

coil · Dec 07, 2009, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Day Trooper

However, if post-SF the best possible time to complete UW is 2+ hours, then imho that's just simply way too long to spend in an area - especially if one of your teammates fails and causes the party to be booted back to ToA and wasting all the time you just spent (at least now we can do a 'relaxed' dayway run in 35-45 mins, and so the time investment isn't so great that a failed-run seems like a complete waste of time)...

-DT

this^^^^

apply this to any area where i'm spending 1.5-3+hrs to get double diamonds. nothx.

Wuhy · Dec 07, 2009, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Test Me

Because obviously online RPG games are meant to be played only by rocket science elitists with an IQ over 170 with 7 friends alike them. Because wait.... ANet does not want "retards" to buy a copy and enjoy playing a game, cause "retard" money is no-good money for ANet.

Not to mention how "retarded" it is to refer about someone's "skill" in a game as being "retarded". Obviously people with great GW skills get to be elected presidents and are known to have invented the cure for cancer, aids and what not.

I did not refer to people's skills in a game. There are 2 kinds of gamers: the ones who are good and the ones who are bad. In every single game. Now that if people play pve in a game like guild wars(a pvp game(originally) with terrible pve) can only be bad. sorry.

]HM[ Sabre Wolf · Dec 07, 2009, 11:11 PM // 23:11

So... making a single iWin skill for an elite area that is suppose to be the hardest thing to do in the game in order to make it a cake walk and complete it in under 15-20 minutes is a good thing? err... no... They call it an Elite Area for a reason people... its suppose to be hard.

Golgotha · Dec 07, 2009, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wuhy

I did not refer to people's skills in a game. There are 2 kinds of gamers: the ones who are good and the ones who are bad. In every single game. Now that if people play pve in a game like guild wars(a pvp game(originally) with terrible pve) can only be bad. sorry.

Holy high and mighty trolling. Haven't seen this pedigree since.. well, the other Shadow Form threads.

Wuhy · Dec 07, 2009, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golgotha

Holy high and mighty trolling. Haven't seen this pedigree since.. well, the other Shadow Form threads.

are you sure?

Cuilan · Dec 07, 2009, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Day Trooper

However, if post-SF the best possible time to complete UW is 2+ hours, then imho that's just simply way too long to spend in an area

Well Underworld is or once was considered an elite area. I would think it would require some level of time. I feel like I just stated the obvious.

UnChosen · Dec 07, 2009, 11:38 PM // 23:38

2 Ectos for 2+ hours (3+ for most pugs) is not elite....I could get more by just doing Z quests with multiple characters, solo farming, running, etc. If I factor in the percentage of pug failures with "balanced" builds....well f**k that the reward doesn't even come close to what I get from normal casual play.

Stuff like mini dhumm and eternal sword is so much like a real life lottery, I will probably come out on top if I just do easy farm and buy it.

Sure, make it hard....but if I don't come out after 3 hours with a pug with at least 30k in the bag then no thanks.

Or...make it easier and leave the reward as it is...their call.

Of course, they'll probably choose the "DoA method" instead.

Golgotha · Dec 07, 2009, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wuhy

are you sure?

PvE player = bad player? Yes, I'm sure you are mightily wrong in that matter.

Their goals may not be the same as yours, but that in no way makes them "bad".

some guy · Dec 07, 2009, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Most PvE people I played with is pretty bad...

eg. not carrying rezzes, not switching to shield sets, insisting on healing breeze is awesomezorz, running 400 hp while yelling at monks, no position awareness. The list goes longer.

When I play with my HA buddies or old GvG friends.... PvE is ACTUALLY ENJOYABLE

Golgotha · Dec 07, 2009, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Well Underworld is or once was considered an elite area. I would think it would require some level of time. I feel like I just stated the obvious.

The problem being the only criteria it meets for an "elite" area is the time involved for a balanced group. The rewards are minimal outside of a luck-of-the-draw chest. They could make a two hours mission with little reward, but that doesn't make it elite.

Golgotha · Dec 07, 2009, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by some guy

Most PvE people I played with is pretty bad...

eg. not carrying rezzes, not switching to shield sets, insisting on healing breeze is awesomezorz, running 400 hp while yelling at monks. The list goes longer.

When I play with my HA buddies or old GvG friends.... PvE is ACTUALLY ENJOYABLE

Pick up some random PvP'ers.. not much different. Like an entire team watching as the lone anti-caster is taking down my monk while bashing on minions. The average player is just that -- average. Given that a high percentage of knowledgeable players have moved on, that would mean what was once considered below average or even poor is now the mean. This fact applies for all areas, PvE or PvP.

Bug John · Dec 07, 2009, 11:54 PM // 23:54

as someone else said, sf nerf won't bring anything to the community, just like ursan nerf didn't bring anything

PvE doesn't need balance, PvP does... as long perma sins can't gank your guild lord, who cares if they can complete uw in 2 hours (with a 90% failure rate for pugs) ?

Kook~NBK~ · Dec 08, 2009, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golgotha

The problem being the only criteria it meets for an "elite" area is the time involved for a balanced group. The rewards are minimal outside of a luck-of-the-draw chest. They could make a two hours mission with little reward, but that doesn't make it elite.

I disagree. What is supposed to make UW an Elite area is the difficulty involved & the high possibilty (relatively speaking) of a party wipe, as lamented by so many regarding balanced groups/PUGs in every single "SF" thread.

Quote:

The rewards are minimal outside of a luck-of-the-draw chest. They could make a two hours mission with little reward, but that doesn't make it elite.

I agree that the rewards should match the challenge involved. Right now with UWSCs & SF, the rewards are much greater than the challenge involved. Conversely, with balanced groups/ PUGs, the rewards are too low for the challenge involved. Back in the day, when ectos were worth 12K +, the reward matched the challenge for balanced groups/pugs.

Golgotha · Dec 08, 2009, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~

I disagree. What is supposed to make UW an Elite area is the difficulty involved & the high possibilty (relatively speaking) of a party wipe, as lamented by so many regarding balanced groups/PUGs in every single "SF" thread.

I agree that the rewards should match the challenge involved. Right now with UWSCs & SF, the rewards are much greater than the challenge involved. Conversely, with balanced groups/ PUGs, the rewards are too low for the challenge involved. Back in the day, when ectos were worth 12K +, the reward matched the challenge for balanced groups/pugs.

I agree with you to a point. Difficulty is definitely a requirement for an elite area, but I think it goes hand in hand with the reward of completing that area as well. In the end, there are many difficult (for PUG) areas in the game that most would not consider elite. I think this comes down to UW being historically as one of two end game areas when the game was first released and the then reward (I agree with you there). Maybe we'll see ecto prices rise in the wake of the nerf making the reward for PUG's worth the effort and time to invest. I doubt it though, unfortunately.

Bryant Again · Dec 08, 2009, 12:17 AM // 00:17

The fact that people consider a "balanced" team to require a tank to hold aggro really shows how much this game has fallen, and how much the mindset of many players have grown accustomed to that.

Trader of Secrets · Dec 08, 2009, 12:28 AM // 00:28

I think SF should stay, but should be non-damaging, just a harmless tank

Wuhy · Dec 08, 2009, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

The fact that people consider a "balanced" team to require a tank to hold aggro really shows how much this game has fallen, and how much the mindset of many players have grown accustomed to that.

^

12 chars.

Wubbies · Dec 08, 2009, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Does SF have a place in a nicely designed, balanced game?
That, it does not.
Is GW a nicely designed, balanced game?
That, it is not.

I agree with upier

Make Res Sig Stronger with 200 Dmg aoe..and when will upier run for president?